BASQUASH (Thomas Romain + Kawamori + Satelight)

[Openget]

Bon, ce n'est que mon point de vue.
Et comme je suis probablement le seul que ça dérange je ne vois pas l'utilité de gâcher la fête davantage.

Mais non, ton pavé est très bien. Il aborde les choses de façon totalement différentes par rapport à mon point de vue, et beaucoup plus en détails. Moi je regarde toujours cette série à moitié défoncé (de fatigue hein :p ) alors c'est bien de lire de l'analyse en profondeur, que je ne ferai je pense que lorsque je me la retaperai en bluray.
Pour les scènes de basket à poil, voilà pourquoi j'aime : parce que justement on peut voir du basket, et que ce n'est pas que de la machine. Avec les personnages font du basket eux-même, cela permet des mouvements de basket plus "purs", genre passe ou interception.

[mitch]

>openget
C'est précisément dans ces moments que je trouve que ça ne marche pas du tout :
En considérant les mechas comme une gêne plutôt qu'une force on perd l'intérêt du concept.
Les mechas étant globalement humanoïde, il peuvent tout-à-fait remplir ce rôle. Quoi de mieux pour démontrer la dextérité des pilotes que de les identifier complètement à leurs machines en mettant en scène les machines comme des humains. Leur machine étant une extension d'eux-mêmes.
De toute façon il est difficile de vraiment lire le visage quand le corps est en mouvement aussi le close-up est inévitable.
Avoir des mechas sans tête ne me paraît pas un problème difficile à contourner en terme de mise en scène. Il y a trop de solutions pour toutes les citer. et des pas chères en plus...

Le concept me paraît déjà assez inhabituel pour avoir à s'embarasser d'une abstraction.

[Openget]

Je comprends bien, mais c'est un effet, peut-etre pas aussi recurrent, mais qui m'a rappele Gundam, quand les mechas s'effacent pour ne laisser que les pilotes. Ce n'est pas le meme effet a proprement parler, puisque le pilote reste a sa place, seule la machine devient translucide. Mais c'est l'impression immediate que j'ai eue.
Quant a l'interet du concept "perdu", la aussi je comprends ta reaction, mais le basketteur que je suis a aime parce qu'on lache la ferraille quelques secondes pour voir du basket flashy et colore. Je pense que ce sera vraiment une question de gouts et d'affectif.
Le public jeune-basketteur-in the move devrait l'accepter, les autres je sais pas.

[Bambin]

j'arrive deux ans apres la bataille, je viens enfin de voir les deux premiers episodes sur youtube, y a pas a dire ca claque bien! Les ambiances sont supers.
Le cote fan service un peu abuse m'a fait rire

En tout cas chapeau et bonne continuation(et surtout bon courage)! J'ai hate de voir la suite, ca promet.

[REnaissance]

>REnaissance
No development, Dan is still dumb as ever...
in a way this can be actually fun when you don't overuse it way too much because it gets annoying.
In fact nothing has REALLY happened in this episode except for the "Haruka wants to legalize street basquash" stuff which is the other track introduced I was talking about...

I have no comment over the style of the narration, because I don't see it as neither complicated nor confusing (nor seriously, useless?), it's just a different narration style compared to the previous episode.

About the princess, oh well, her role is little now but time will tell how much she grows later on. Seriously, give her some time.

And no development on Dan? Are you kidding? In episode 4, he finally got down, planned something (with the help of Bel, but he's getting there) so he could counter Iceman's move and invented the whole zigzag throw all by himself.
And in this episode, for the first time, Dan calls Sela by her name and seems to understand the power of teamwork which leads his team to victory.
If you do pay attention to the show you will know Dan is still dumb, but he's not the same Dan as before.

About what happened in episode 5 aside from "Haruka wants to legalize street BFB":
- Dan, Sela and Iceman are officially a team.
- Street BFB is spreading like wildfire, along with the Nikes...
- And the term Basquash is invented, by Dan, which will mark the end of Street BFB and the beginning of a new sport.

[mitch]

I have no comment over the style of the narration, because I don't see it as neither complicated nor confusing (nor seriously, useless?), it's just a different narration style compared to the previous episode.

Yes it is useless.
The purpose of this "style" is a just a matter of disguize used to hide how thin the dramatization is here.
Some quick'n dirty fix to bring the showdown with the other team.
Whit a little bit of "oh geez, we forgot something, ok let's put it here."

About the princess, oh well, her role is little now but time will tell how much she grows later on. Seriously, give her some time.

It's been already two episodes...
Little mysteries are annoying because most of the time they're a disappointment.
If she had participated in a way in the tale, I guess I would'nt have been annoyed by her.

- Dan, Sela and Iceman are officially a team.
- Street BFB is spreading like wildfire, along with the Nikes...
- And the term Basquash is invented, by Dan, which will mark the end of Street BFB and the beginning of a new sport.

Well, I have perfectly dug that the writers wants me to know these informations because it is some variation of "shounen cliché" thema.
What could make this "not cliché" is how you tell it.

So they just basically "said" all that (it is mostly spoken by the characters) instead of actually SHOWING how this is possible.
As a viewer I don't buy that. It's NOT convincing.

We have important matters happening in a flash spoken by the characters with no palpable development.
Whereas it would have been excellent dramatization material!
It is a bit like like the Characters just goes
"GREAT! now we're a team!" and that's all!
As a viewer, I don't feel it THAT great you know...
Did you actually see any kind of cooperation work within the main characters?

By the way WHAT is basquash?
Is it about smashing statues with a giant basketball by piloting a mech?
come on...
What are the rules?
Because I just see people yelling and breaking stuffs...
Every sport or game gets you hooked when you start to understand it and its finesse. And let me tell you I am no big fan of sport.

The story is allright but it isn't well told to me.
I mean I perfectly understood the content of this episode.
I am just telling how - to me - the writers missed the point in making this episode actually exciting.
Probably it is just me but I need more than EyeCandy.

[REnaissance]

@Mitch:
No more argument over that narration style of episode 5, if you feel that it's useless. That's fine. I can do nothing about it. Same for the "stuffs that are not convincing" and "thin dramatization", because I feel that they are damn fine. I'm not gonna write a wall of text to prove my point though, I suppose you can always rewatch the previous episodes and see for yourself, for the better or worse.

About the princess, least I can tell you, she's going to be a regular member of the team soon, so just hold ya horses and give her some time.

...and again, I can't wait to see episode 6 and 7.

What are the rules?

Rewatch episode 4 and 5, Haruka explains it.
"Both teams all target a hoop which is a random location in the area, could be anything really.
Or they can play rough and fight till all opponent's big foots are trashed.
Body shots against opponent and moves that result in injury are all approved as long as there is a play for the ball, same with running on rooftops and bouncing ball off walls."
Otherwise, no rules, that's the point.

[mitch]

>REnaissance
Ok as you wish.
I, personally, paid the effort writing some walls in order to show I was not dumbly bashing the show. As you can see, I am not lacking in arguments.
I am just trying to answer your question the best as I can.

Actually I would like to apreciate this 5th episode.
But I can't.

Rewatch episode 4 and 5, Haruka explains it.

You don't need to explain me the show.
It's OK. I have already perfectly understood.
I am telling it is not working and I tried to explain why since you asked me.
You do not explain a game with just one spoken sentence.
You show it, you make it interesting...
That is the point of dramatization.
This ALONE could have been a great episode.
If only the rules were more defined.
Probably closer to real basketball.

Otherwise, no rules, that's the point.

Well no... that's pointless.
I wonder how to make this interesting during all the series with such a messy and boring game.
Candy Eye mishmash with no point at all.
It's like the writers don't give a shit about the game.
So how am I giving a shit about it?

[TRANTKAT]

T'es en train de pourrir la série, là ... nan ?

'tain, on dirait moi. ^^;

[JeP]

C'est bien ce qu'il m'a semblé, mais je lis en diagonale pour pas trop me spoiler

[jem]

Je serais Mitch, je me méfierais d'éventuels paquets arrivant du Japon...

[DCFOS]

N'empêche, sans vouloir faire mon chieur, et au risque de ne rien apporter au débat, je suis un peu d'accord avec lui.
Les premiers épisodes étaient funs mais là les défauts cités commencent à se voir.
Ceci dit ce serait pas la première série de 20 et quelques épisodes à décoller relativement tard (selon les exigences des exigents).
Wait and see ces fameux épisodes 6 et 7, donc...

[Openget]

Ouais bon, s'il avait fallu juger Gurren Lagann sur le 4eme episode, il y aurait beaucoup de monde qui aurait brule toute l'equipe sur un bucher.
Laissez un peu de temps a cette serie, elle n'est pas finie, elle commence juste, meme.

[mitch]

T'es en train de pourrir la série, là ... nan ?

Non, juste l'épisode 5.
Comme le dit OpenGet, bien des séries se sont remises d'un épisode moins réussi.

Même si Gurren Lagann ne me paraît pas une bonne comparaison. L'animation off-model du 4 ne m'avait pas perturbé pour suivre l'histoire.
Bien sûr c'était assez dommage parce que ça donnait l'impression de perdre un peu de ses personnages mais ce n'est pas comme si toutes les anims étaient "pourries", il y en a même de vraiment très bonnes.
Et globalement, cet épisode fonctionnait bien.
Les personnages de Gurren Lagann sont très bien caractérisés et exploités.

[thomas]

L'erreur principale sur l'episode 5 c'est d'avoir accepte le scenario au premier draft. Itagaki a cru pouvoir s'en sortir en faisant les ajustements directement au story-board. Au final il en a bave comme pas possible et le resultat est donc visiblement sujet a de nombreuses critiques. En general les scenarii sont reecrits au moins 4 a 5 fois avant de passer au story-board. Il y a parfois jusqu'a 7 versions suivies d'ajustements utlimes encore a l'etape du story-board.
Le 6 est diffuse ce soir a Osaka, j'espere qu'il sera plus a ton gout mon cher Mitch.